Interview — Kirpal Sagar 1994

Transcript of a video interview with Dr Harbhajan Singh, held at Kirpal Sagar, 9 February, 1994

Question: Many people in India and in the Western countries, they follow so-called persons who claim to be the successor of Sant Kirpal Singh. What about this? What is your position in this direction?

Dr Harbhajan Singh: I mean, let people understand themselves, if really they know the truth as taught by the competent Masters. The first thing is, if there is anyone (competent), he would never say he is a Master. Those who are so-called they will say, yes they are the master.

Guru Nanak was asked as who is the Master? He said: “He (God) is the Doer.” And the same thing Kabir and all the competent Masters of the centuries, they said, they are the borrowed servant of the God.

So, a competent one will never claim himself as a master. If ever he claims himself as a master, his contact with Him (God) will be broken. It is a law. He is commissioned by God Power, but he takes himself as a borrowed servant of God, because he sees his (inner) Master, he sees this Power that is within – that we call Christ Power, Master Power, God Power – working everywhere and then he dares not to claim it. And moreover he is blessed; he is graced by that Power continuously. He has got this protection all the time, and without His protection and guidance he cannot move. And so he always needs the help and grace from his Father and he brings those thoughts unto all others.

Now Sant Kirpal Singh was a Word personified form, because He gave that experience as taught by all competent Masters. Still He did not claim himself as Master, He always said: “My Master (Hazur Baba Sawan Singh) is the Master.” He said, “My Master will bless all“, but He never would say that “I bless you”, like this. So in this regard it was His order that He told all people, that except this person (Dr Harbhajan Singh), nobody should be beside Him (in the hospital on August 21, 1974). So I was with Him (during and) after His physical departure.

But Master told me, this is the work and you do it. I said to Master: “No, it is God work. How a man can do it?” He said: “You are blessed with right understanding — rather rare right understanding of a special significance. It is a high time and you can help your brothers and sisters.” I said: “Master, I won’t accept it.” In reality I never had any wish for that purpose and I told Him the facts: “Master, you know my heart, never I claimed this things and never I would claim.” He said: “I know, but you are a borrowed servant of God.

A borrowed servant of God means that he should listen to what is told and then should do with it and live with it and his purpose is not to create any controversy to therein. Even then I told Master from heart: “I am feeling somewhere different and really I am not fit and I am not even ready to do that.” Then He told me that, “since you are blessed with right understanding“, then I told: “Yes Master, if right understanding is there, then you multiply it to all my brothers and sisters.” And thereafter He told: “There will be a big awakening in the world.

And then He said: “I give you one preference which was hardly given and very rarely given, that only those will come in contact with you who are blessed or who are sent by Him, others not. So your work will remain very easy.” In this direction He was telling that after this Unity of Man Conference 1974, He told, will lot of brothers and sisters from the West, they will also sitting. He said about all those (who) work of the Unity of Man, He even told, that my parent organization Ruhani Satsang has nothing to do with this Unity of Man.

Unity of Man is not an organization, even it is not any ‘isms’ or sect — it is a group of conscious people.

He said,

My purpose is to give this work on the level of man.
My purpose is to give this work in the hand of conscious people,
so that there is a big awakening in the world.
And he who becomes conscious co-worker of divine plan,
he will be very close to that Power,
and then work will be more harmoniously
without any hindrance,
without any further ‘isms’ and sect.
— Sant Kirpal Singh

So His purpose was to bring a total stop to the further ‘isms’ and sect. That is what He meant always.

Then He told me, there are lots of persons with this right understanding in the world. When you go there, time will come they are by the grace of the God — they are scattered everywhere and they are allowed to get together and there will be a revolution of Spirituality and this will be a real work of the God Power.

So my position is just only as a borrowed servant of Him and I take Him as Master and He is the Master, He is the Doer. If I say, I am a Master, it will not serve, it will not help you. But it will only help you when really you have this awareness within and you will see this blessing, I would say, what is written in the Holy Scriptures, that becomes your experience. If that experience doesn’t become your experience, then if I say “I am a Master”, it will not help you at all.

So there are lot of things and mostly these things are discussed in the very open Satsang, from heart to heart-talk, and people understand the true Teaching according to their Holy Scriptures and there is no need to mention about a religion or to follow any other religion.

God made man and He put them (humans) into different religions, so why to change it? God has not done any mistake. If He has given us birth in Christianity, in Sikhism or anywhere, He will provide the food and because demand and supply matter is eternal there.

So there is hardly any need to follow any ‘isms’ or sect, wherever our contact with that Power is direct and independent. I would say, just take the example of Jesus Christ.

Who was the Jesus Christ? I would tell you according to the terminology according to the Teaching of even the Jesus and all other competent Masters.

Christ Power lived before Jesus

Christ is the Power which has no beginning and no end and the same Christ Power worked on different poles even before Jesus and after Jesus. So this is the work of the Christ Power. So we should take that Christ Power as a very universal phenomenon and you can have it and you can see it in the heart and even in the whole creation whether there are animals or like this – this phenomenon is there, this Power is present. It is the controlling Power that sustaining the whole creation.

So we are misled. So in this direction, we are bound with certain circles, we are creating barriers and we ourselves do not allow to cross them and we are fixed in cages, and these are very strong forts for us, and it is difficult to get rid of it. Whereas our contact (with this Power) is direct, independent and it is chosen according to our will.

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