December 23, 1970 — heart-to-heart talk (Q&A) in Rajpur by Sant Kirpal Singh
(Light of Kirpal, chapter 35)
[Speaking to someone sitting in the doorway. ]
Master: Are you guarding the door so no one would run away? [chuckles]
Q: Master, when I stand on my head, do a headstand, the Sound Current gets really loud; how come?
M: What do you mean by that?
Q: You know, when you get down, and your feet go up and your head is down.
M: Sound is there; that makes no difference.
Q: It seems to get really loud when I do.
M: Where you put your whole attention, naturally there you’ll go. Similarly if your whole attention is there, you’ll have it while sitting. When you stoop down, your whole attention [goes to your head], that’s all; and the result will be when you are withdrawn you will fall down. [everyone laughs] Sit at right angles. Even if you withdraw, you won’t fall. Whichever way you are leaning you will fall down in that way. This body, what is it? It’s like earth, stone. When you are withdrawn, what is it? It is a clod of earth, after all.
Q: And also sometimes when you get out of bed quickly in the morning, the blood rushes to your head, you feel dizzy.
M: What are you talking about? Blood is always going through the veins even while sleeping, hard at work. That dizziness may mean there is something wrong physically.
Q: A lot of people have that, it happens to a lot of people.
M: You’re a spokesman for all of them? [chuckles] Do you have something like that, tell me? What about you?
Q: Well, it hasn’t happened lately but sometimes when I would get up from sitting and get up quickly I would feel.
M: If the soul is withdrawn, you cannot stand. You are There, and unless you descend into the body, you cannot control yourself. The seat of the soul is at the back of the eyes from where it works throughout the whole body. Have you followed?
M: When you leave meditation don’t stand up all at once; slowly. Then the soul current, sensory current works through the body. You follow? When you are withdrawn you see it is inert, body is inert. If all at once you rise, then sometimes soul is not in this physical body, you sometimes cannot think what you are doing. Even if it happens so, then again sit down in meditation. Come down slowly, not all at once. You are not in this physical body as yet. You feel something. Sometimes you cannot think. If anything happens to you like that, then sit down in meditation and think of God. That’s the only remedy. These things are not given in books, I tell you. They are practical difficulties. So when you are in meditation, if anybody wants you, he should let you come down slowly. Slowly. Don’t leave all at once. Because after all, the spirit current has to work through the body. The prana current goes on, it is not disturbed, it becomes slow, steady, rhythmic. It is the spirit current, sensory current, which is withdrawn. That’s a point to be remembered. So if this thing happens, never rise all at once, mind that. When you rise up, rise up slowly; feel your arms.
Q: Master, in this case it wasn’t that. I wasn’t even meditating. It’s just that sometimes when I’m in a bathtub, my body gets very hot, and when I stand up the blood rushes from my head sometimes. And I was just saying that when that happens now I hear the Sound Current; this happens occasionally…
M: Well, rise up slowly. Why all at once? The house has not gone on fire. When you are all heated and you leave off covering, then naturally you’ll feel uneasy.
Q: All it is, when that happens I hear the Sound Current very loud.
M: My Lord, again that comes. Sound is already there. When you are concentrated, whether lying, or sitting, or stooping, or reclining, your attention should be there. That makes no difference. You may sit headlong down, even then you will hear. This is because you are always thinking of yourself as a body. Don’t think of the body at all and you won’t have any suchlike feelings. You follow me? These are some practical difficulties which do arise. That is why guidance is required, unless you become adept in that. In most books you won’t see a reply to this, but in a way the reply is there. The only thing is we don’t digest. First understand; then digest.
M: So, what does Master do? Listen carefully, I would say now. You know it is we who give strength to the outgoing faculties to work. If we are not there, outgoing faculties do not work. I gave you an example the other day. When you are sitting quite absorbed in something, if somebody calls you once, twice, thrice, you do not hear. He comes up to you and says, “Well, dear friend, I have called you so many times, why don’t you reply?” You say, “My attention was somewhere else.” Unless the attention is in the ears, ears don’t work. Unless the attention is in the eyes, eyes won’t see. Attention is to be controlled. How to control? If you withdraw completely, concentrated at one center, the outgoing faculties will not disturb you. The outward things also won’t attract your outgoing faculties. You know the whole machinery of the body is working on account of us. Is it not? When you leave the body it is a dead machinery lying there. So what does Master do? He first gives you a control to your own body. How? By giving you a lift, an experience, a demonstration to be There. They [Masters] give you something to stand on. If you are fully absorbed there the whole machinery stands.
M: So somebody asked Guru Arjan, “What did Master do for you?” He said, “He has made me the master of my body; I am the queen of the body.” “Well, how many servants have you got?” He said, “Ten, ten servants.” “Who are they?” — “Five outgoing faculties, physical outgoing faculties, and five, the inner working through them.” So ten servants you have got. But they have run amuck, revolted. They drag you anyway they like. When you concentrate There, then all outgoing faculties do not work. So first lesson which He gives us is to learn to do that. Now we are dragged by the outgoing faculties. The outgoing faculties are dragged by outward enjoyments, and outward enjoyments control the outgoing faculties. Outgoing faculties control the mind, and mind is controlling the intellect–and the poor spirit is being dragged, just like in a chariot that is drawn by so many horses. The driver is there, the horses are controlled with the reins, and the man who is sitting in the chariot is being dragged by them. It is something like that. So we are in the chariot of the body. Outgoing faculties are the horses, each running in its own way. And mind is controlling. So if you concentrate, it is the mind that gets strength from you. If you are centered There, then mind and intellect are the horses. That is what is with you the very first day.
M: Intellectuals might understand in that way. When you are withdrawn from all outside, the result will be? You are spirit, God is spirit, and spirit is God. You are a drop of the Ocean of All Consciousness; naturally that will go back to its own source. It is but natural. Just like a lit candle, the flame goes upward always. If you upturn it, even then it will go up. Why? Because the source of light is the sun outside. You come down to the earth because its source is there. So mind is material. It will always lead you to the downward things. And when you are cut off from all these things, naturally you will want God. Nowadays we have got airplanes, previously we had hydrogen balloons. They were filled with hydrogen gas and were tied down to the earth with some rope. When those ropes were cut, they flew into the air. It is something like that, you see. When you are cut off from all outgoing faculties, naturally the soul will go to the Oversoul, it is but natural. I would say we have got a real innate hankering to go to our own nature, source, God.
M: If outward penances or other methods are done, it is just like a lady who is going to be married away, and always trying different ornaments. It is all outward. Whatever method you adopt; you sing, you do this thing or that ritual; this is only to prepare you for meeting God, that’s all. But unless you are the master of your own self, you cannot proceed further, you are dragged like anything. So first thing is to be withdrawn. This is the very first lesson given to you, and also something is given to stand on within you, on God, the outward expression of which is Light and Sound. It is very scientific, very natural. If you understand me, and live up to it, you’ll become like I am too. That ABC will start from there. Now we are not completely withdrawn. We are dragged by outward things. If you put in more time and become absorbed in the Light and Sound Principle within, then naturally what will be the result? You will have bliss There. Now mind won’t permit you to go in. But once it has tasted that bliss, it will never like to come out. So that is why I say, put in more time. In a few months you must have that bliss, then naturally whenever you have vacant time, you’ll try to go in. Yes?
Q: Master, we have desires, all of us have desires. They vary from person to person. But, is it necessary to live out the desires, to fulfill them, or can we by meditating… ?
M: What desires? Carnal desires should be avoided. How can you control yourself?. Outward give and take as a reaction of the past, that is something else. Desire — you say you want to drink, then? You want to drink, you desire to drink?
Q: Drink what?
M: Then? Be desireless, all Masters say this. Lord Buddha says be desireless. It is desires that drag you out.
Q: Sometimes I have read that you can’t leave this world until all our desires are fulfilled.
M: Not desires but the reactions of the past. Never sow new seeds which will have to be reaped. Past give and take should be wound up. If you go on enjoying desires; they play hell like anything. If a butcher desires to kill animals, do you think it is all right? You are conscious entities, you are men, not animals. You have to know yourself, and the ultimate goal is to know the Overself. You have to leave all things that bind you to the outside. Let give and take be reconciled, that is another thing. But desires, carnal desires, I would say now, let me use the word carnal desires, or outward desires that bind you to the outside world, have to be used in a temperate way, so that they may not stand in your way to God.
Q: By meditation they can be washed away?
M: I told you just now, you become master of your outgoing faculties. For that you have been given a demonstration. Well, go on with it. You’ll be absorbed into It, and outward things won’t affect you. You will become air conditioned. This is the first lesson to be learned, and this is the first lesson given by all Masters the very first day, a demonstration of which is given. We do not appreciate the valuable thing we have received. You always revive outward desires. I just told you, mind is material, it will always drag you to the material things. Soul is not material, it is conscious. It will go to All Consciousness when it is cut off from all outside. Ultimately everything boils down to that.
M: Can you know yourself? Sometimes you have a dip, then you are dragged outside. You have not become the master of your body. The ABC starts when you rise above body consciousness. Body consciousness comes only through outgoing faculties. We are identified with the body and outside world so much so that we have forgotten ourselves. Go on, do it, and you will see the further way very clearly, and you’ll run up like anything. It is worldly desires only that drag us down. If you are like that, you’ll leave the body at death with nobody to care after you. Then you will have to come back.
The initiates have a concession. What? You know what? It’s given in the books. They won’t come back lower than the man body. Yes, yes. Why?
Q: Because the seed is in them, the only way the seed could fructify…
M: That’s all right. If he has love for, a ruling passion for the Master, then?
Q: Then he won’t have to come back.
M: That’s all right. He will go where the Master will go. If He is not to return, how can you return? So this is what I was telling, you see. Don’t ruminate over books, I would say now. Read, understand; but understanding intellectually also won’t do anything, unless you live up to it. You sit in meditation–all right–the world is not there. But when you come out the world is there. It is you who make the world. Yes?
Q: Master, if a person is…
M: I wish your ifs and buts to be finished. They will be finished only if you live up to what you have been told. All right, go on.
Q: If a person is very starving, or very hungry all day long, and all he can think about is where he is going to get his next meal from, then isn’t it more difficult for him to have desire for God, because all his desires are for food and…
M: You must earn your livelihood. Stand on your own legs. Don’t depend on others. If you are dependent it is better to die. Earn your own livelihood, stand on your own legs, earn your livelihood by the sweat of your brow and share with others.
Q: Won’t it be hard for that person to progress spiritually because all his desires are for food and shelter?
M: One is carnal desire, the other is spiritual desire. Learn to differentiate between the two. One is noble desire, the other will keep you down. Digest it, grasp it. When you grasp it, live up to it. Even if you don’t grasp it in one book, other books give the same thing from a different view. It is 9:30. Pity I have to run up there too [Manav Kendra]. Enjoy your meditations, to the best you can.
Q: Do you give Satsang for the Indian people anytime here in Rajpur?
M: What is Satsang? This is Satsang. It clarifies certain things by heart to heart talk. Lecturing only gives theory to you, so that you may grasp something. Direct talks are given here, clearly. Just like the cracking of the almond to give you the real thing. Casing is taken off and only real things are given.
Q: An Indian tailor downtown said he thinks he would like to see you, and so I said in the morning here.
M: They are welcome anytime. This is Satsang.
M: These heart to heart talks given to you are the very gist of the whole thing. But in Satsang it is by radiation that you get it, things become very clear. The same thing given in books will not be so clear now, because the charging and the words coming from the heart go into the heart. Only an arrow which has been drawn to the breast will go to the target. If it is not drawn to the breast, then it will fall down. So, words coming out of the heart, go to the heart of the people. That’s the point.