Heart to Heart Talk
(Light of Kirpal, chapter 15)
Question: Many of us here live at Ashrams or centers or headquarters in the States, and there’s a lot of Master’s work there, and I know in my case in particular, there’s always typing or filing or books to be mailed out.
And you have also told us to put in time regularly for meditation when you suggested at least a minimum of ten percent, two and a half hours at a minimum, and more would be better. Now, after our worldly obligations are finished, when we return and we put in this two and a half hour time for meditation, generally I find that there’s some time left over, a few hours. Now, should this time be devoted to more meditation or putting in work, Master’s work?
Master: What in your opinion is better of the two?
Question: I don’t know. I really don’t.
Master: Master’s foremost work is meditation. Then, do other Master’s work. This is good work. It keeps you all along in sweet remembrance of the Master if it’s done so [with remembrance]. Sometimes you go on doing it without any thought of the Master and that is not as beneficial as if you would do this work seeing you are doing Master’s work, like a slave. All the time you are conscious of that: then that is something substantial. But at the same time, you are not to ignore your meditation.
Question: How much time should we put in when we’re back there, then?
Master: Out of 24 hours, how much time do you require for your job?
Master: Nine hours?
Question: Nine, yes.
Master: All right, that leaves 15 hours. Then, what about your personal self? [laughter] Let’s be business-like. How many hours do you want for your own personal self, physical. . .
Question: Including eating?
Master: Everything, breathing, eating, resting, sleeping.
Question: Maybe twelve — sleeping, eating, everything else.
Master: Twelve hours. How many for sleeping?
Question: Seven or eight.
Master: Seven hours. All right, one hour for eating?
Master: How much altogether?
Master: Now what altogether — three hours for eating? I don’t think it takes more than fifteen or twenty minutes for eating… do you think?
Master: Well, come on. So nine hours for your job. That’s all right. Seven hours for sleep. All right. Eating. . . then leaves eight hours. How many hours do you want in all for your personal self? One hour, two hours, three hours, four hours. Even then you’ve got four hours. It is a lame excuse for not doing meditation. Do you follow me?
Question: Would you suggest any number?
Master: You want number! I have counted in a business-like way.
Question: Four hours meditation?
Master: Four hours are left to you. Well, do some of Master’s work. That doesn’t leave four hours for eating, I don’t think. [pause, chuckles] But you have to leave the body. You have to leave the body. I’m not leaving in your place or anybody else’s. Wake up, please.
If after hard work on Master’s work you put in an hour or so, then you benefit more than if you do three hours of meditation. That will compensate you. And all the time, while you are working, are you conscious, always in sweet remembrance of the Master?
Master: Then? It is being done in a business-like way. If you think you are working for the Master but, “As a slave I am doing Master’s work. . .” That’s all right. So you must adjust your time during the day to do your meditation first. At the cost of meditation, don’t do other work.
But you’ve got so many hours you can do more work. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do Master’s work. Do more. Is it clear to you now? What have you followed?
Question: Well, put in first time for meditation, and if there’s time left over, for working. . .
Master: If you have to put in more for Master’s work, then take it from your sleep or from your other program. Meditation should not be sacrificed, mind that.
Question: That’s a very helpful suggestion for me, Master.
Master: Everybody. So reserve five hours, if you don’t have Master’s work, all right, do two hours, three hours. Don’t leave your meditation.
Question: Master, I would like to meditate quite a lot and go inside. But I find that very difficult. At night, sometimes, I think that I should pray and sit and all that, but then after a couple of hours, about an hour-and-half, sleep comes and I lie down and sleep.
Master: You must persevere. Habits form habit-forms. By doing something regularly, after some days, trend of the mind may form a habit. Out of twenty-four hours, you must devote some time; you are required to. There are no hard and fast rules for sitting while doing it. You may sit in any pose you like, that suits you most. But don’t go to sleep. Be conscious of it. Keep wide awake. If you feel that way, who will do it? Nobody else can do this work for you. It is your work to die, not anyone else’s. You must learn how to leave the body.
Some concession can be there; you have done your best, leave the rest to God. Some concession can be there, but all hundred per cent concessions cannot be given.
There is one way out. If you’ve got full devotion to the Master, you have surrendered yourself to the Master, the love in the Master is most in your heart, then you may be saved from coming back, you need not come back. You’ll have to continue this further, but it will take longer time There as compared with here. You please.
Question: How does faith in the Master-Power develop?
Master: By regular practice. Faith is, I would say, the root cause of religion. For faith you must have something to stand on.
Some people are in the make already, they have that grown already. Others have to form faith in due course, not all at once. So it’s better when you see you are helped by Master in all your affairs; when you see some improvement in your inner way. First, when you see quite impossible things are made very softened down, naturally faith arises. Faith is the root cause of all religion. If there is no ground, where will the building stand?
First, you have to take it as an hypothesis, then you must benefit regularly by seeing or by experiencing your faith. The Masters say: Don’t believe unless you see for your own self what is what. The more you come in contact with Master, and the more you become receptive, the more faith you will have in Him.
Question: [Question in Hindi]
Master: They asked, “Should we love only our brothers in faith or others as well?” I told them, those who come in contact with you, those are dearer than anything. Understand my point. Those who are not yet on the Way, after all they have got the same soul in them, the same God is in them. Many are suffering, and dying; let us pray for them.
There was a story about one lady saint (Rabia Basri) who went along with others going for a pilgrimage to Mecca. On the way, there was a well. Everybody was given water to drink. But she also saw a dog, who was thirsty, very thirsty; his tongue was hanging out of his mouth. She stopped; left the party and went to the well. There was nothing to bring water up so she tore up all her clothes and made a rope of them; even that could not reach the level of the water. Then she cut her hair and made rope from it and let the clothes soak in water. She then gave the water to the dog. When she sat in meditation, God said: “Your pilgrimage has been accepted.’‘ Your pilgrimage has been accepted. Man is man. Leave all narrow-mindedness.
I will tell you the story of the Tenth Guru. Some fighting was going on in the Mohammedan religion. There was one man whose duty was to give water to all who asked for it — those who were being killed and those who were killing others. He was giving water to all. Those people who were not very fully following the theory came and reported to the Tenth Guru. “Our own man is joining with the enemy and giving them water.” Guru called for him. “What are you doing?” . . . “Sir, I am giving water to You. Guru has said, You are in everybody.” And Guru told him, “You have understood my teaching rightly.” Then He gave him some gift also, some spiritual food.
The man who is really after making progress, but cannot progress; what should he do? He wants to put in time, but cannot put in much time. Regularity pays — sit at the door, with full devotion, whether he hears or not. Hafiz says,
Sit at the door! Don’t be anxious whether your prayer has been heard or not.
You have done your duty. Such a man you will see has got full love for the Master and God. He takes sitting at the door as a sacred duty, thinking all the while of the Master. So in that way a man develops love for the Master, for the God in Him. If he has not done much; well, each man does something; he has a concession. If he has full love for the Master, he is not to return, but he has to make progress on the other side. That will take a longer time.
Question: How can we develop hunger for God in others?
Master: Develop hunger in others? All are not ready, or don’t want God. Do you remember what Christ said in that parable of the farmer: he threw seeds; some fell on the road, others fell in the thistle, the one fell on quite ready ground. Those who are ready, your duty is to tell, give them a hint. Those who are ready will grasp. Your duty is to tell them from the housetops: “This is the Truth,” like that. But everybody won’t accept. Only those will accept who are ready. Some people will take up, just like the grains on the road side, which are eaten up by the sparrows. Those sown in the bushes will not grow any further. Those involved in the formalities of the world will say, “What will people say?” What fell on bare ground, very set, bore fruit.
So first: example is better than precept. Even by radiation, you will be of help to others. How can we develop hunger in others? If we are hungry, (for God) our words will be charged, you see. They will go to the heart of others. But only those who are ready will receive. That is why Christ said, “Don’t throw pearls before swine.” — Live it. Example is better than precept. Live it yourself . . . “Wanted: reformers not of others but of themselves.” An example is better than precept. If you are really hungry, people will come in touch by radiation.
I tell you, when I was in office. . . I was a superintendent, in one section many long years ago. And there were so many other sections. One superintendent came to me, “Look here . . . In your section we find everything going on quite calmly, very sweetly, no discussions, no quarrels. Why is it?” I told him, “Well, please concentrate within your own self.” I told him what to do: “All right, go on, concentrate, start.” This was long before I went to my Master. He was a practical man. After two months he came to me: “I sit, but I hear all the things going on around me.” — “All right, put in more single-minded attention.” Then after two more months, “Now in the beginning I hear the sounds of outside; then I don’t hear them.” After two months again he came, “Now do you hear?” He replied, “While I am sitting there’s no noise.“
Regularity pays; regularity pays. You are not regular. Sometimes you run. Sometimes you lie down, sometimes you sleep. Regularity pays — at a tortoise rate of speed: regular. Sometimes you go ahead of a hare that runs, then sleeps. So life affects, you see. If you see a wrestler, then? Are you not affected by seeing? Naturally you receive radiation. If you are really hungry, have hunger after God, naturally by radiation, others will come up.
Question: All are not ready.
Master: Then you can’t do anything. Those who are not ready, then what can you do? If you want the seed to sprout forth, that must take time. We are in the make. Those who are ready, they can have it.
Question: I see. Will everybody be ready?
Master: In due course. But that will be quickened by a Master. If the fruit-laden tree is left to itself, it will take seven years, six, seven years. If by good fortune, he comes in contact with other scientific means, then they will give fruit in two or three years. So society, company radiates to all. That is why, true prayer should be as the Sikhs do:
O God let us meet a Man who is really hungering after You.
Question: What should one do when one is not true to oneself, and in other words, knows better, knows what you should do, but doesn’t do it?
Master: That’s all right. Diary is meant for that. Keep your diary, I mean sincerely — be true to your own self. Don’t deceive your own self. Everything comes up. If a man having a lamp in hand falls down in the ditch, then? Knowing is not sufficient. You must live up to it. An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of theories. We must live up to what He says. Diaries are for that purpose.
Question: Well, I feel we, I mean myself, we have a lack of receptivity towards the Master and the Master-Power. I was wondering if it comes from a lack of effort or is it limited by their karmas?
Master: Karma, you say, karma? Well, it is in the man-body that we are bound to some extent and free to some extent. All others [other forms of creation] are bound: they are not free. So according to reactions of the past: five or six things will come, life and death, riches and poverty, good name or bad name. These are bound to come. That you cannot change. The railroad line is set, and the engine must run on that track. For future you are free to choose which way to lay the rail line. So in man-body, we are bound to some extent and we are free within certain limits. We must make use of that freedom. Everything comes. A man with no experience becomes rich, another man has experience and undergoes debt, does not make a profit. This is the reaction of the past.
Question: I wonder about how to rise above the ego.
Master: Ego? How to lose the ego? So long as we are the doer, whether we do good, right or wrong, we have to bear the fruit of it. Good and bad actions come up, just like chains of iron or of gold. You will lose your ego only when you become Conscious Co-worker of the Divine Plan. You see He is doing — you are not the doer. You are merely a puppet in His hands. So this is the only way ego is lost. “I” and “mine” are lost only when you sit at the door of the Guru or the Master, when you are receptive and you come in contact with the Light of God and Sound Principle. In due course, by regular practice you’ll see some Higher Power is working. It is not you who are working, but some Higher Power. You are merely a puppet in His Hands. That is the only way of losing the ego. You, please?
Question: Why do I feel depressed sometimes when I sit?
Master: This is the reaction of your own past; day to day thoughts. That is why you should weed out all imperfections within you. The reactions, depression, of good or bad. At times you’ll have boost, you will be joyful, at other times, not.
Sometimes the society of others affects. If you come in the society of a very learned man, naturally you will feel that effect. If you come in contact with an ignorant person, then?
Become strong; you should not be affected by others. You must develop strength to affect others. That is why I say, never look into the eyes of others. Eyes are the windows of the Soul. Out of the abundance of whatever is there, that radiates there through the eyes. If the other man is good, good radiation will come.